OP Machines Defender/CX20 vs. Brute

[DavidB]

Which did you choose and why?

What is the difference between plastic and wood drivers? (Which do you prefer?)

 

[Jack May]

I have a 20" Brute with spray system.

I live in New Zealand and bought and freighted it downunder.

I wanted as hassle free a purchase and ongoing equipment as possible.

I reseached as much as I could and found that John and Patty had one of the best reputations of service on the boards that I could find.

I don't know anyone over there and when you have to PAY up front in FULL prior to them even shipping, and then wait up to a month for goods to arrive at your door, you want someone with a GREAT REPUTATION.

I found that in John and his team.

I love the Brute. It works great, nice and smooth. I have/had a couple of minor issues like the jets being too small and me almost gagging on the mist in the air. Also I find that with either glad pads or cotton, I still have to spot more than when using a 19" Cimex with the same chemical and Fibre Plus pads.

I wouldn't hesitate to deal with John and his team again.

Clark seems to be getting a lot of great feedback lately and maybe he is an option as well, but when I was looking, he didn't have the best reptation on the boards from a few years back.

I don't know what the difference in the driver is sorry.

John

 

[Scott Rogers]

John, you know Clark made your Brute right????

They are both good machines. I purchased the Brute. A very good friend of mine had a lot to do with the development of the Defender. The defender was the the original design and Clark developed the Brute in a attempt to improve on it.

I have a lot of time on the Brute and a good amount of time on the Defender. I prefer the Brute, but it is strictly do to what I am used to.

If you want one with a spray system and tank pick the Brute, IF that is not important to you pick the Defender.

More important then which machine you pick is the pad driver you choose. There are 3 types of pad drivers

1) The combo Bush and Velcro driver, this is the one John orders for his machines. It is the one I prefer. You can run cotton, synthetics,and VCT style pads with this driver

2) the all brush driver, this is the one Clark will normally give you if you dont ask for a different one. It is very similar to the pad driver for the RX20. It works well with Synthetic pads and VCT pads but is very hard on Cotton style pads.

3) is the all velcro driver, these run very smooth. The are excellent on cotton but dont work as well for VCT pad and are just ok for synthetics.

There are multiple suppliers of the Brute and Defender, John G is one but there are others and they can be ordered straight from Clark at Orbitech (the Manufacturer) Shop around for the best price. Clark offers good service and will take care of you on that end regardless of who you buy from.

What ever you decide to buy, verify it comes set up the way you want it and not the way your particular supplier normally orders them.

 

[Dolly]

Clarke may manufacture the Brute as well as all the other machines in his line. As a manufacturer Clarke follows the plans of John's designs and specs for the machine.

Every designer has to have someone to manufacture a product.

The service though is as the heart of what John and Patty do.........

They give impeccable service and they have great products to clean with your equipment.

I don't know how any other OP machine works. I only know how my Brute does.

I would not trade it or the relationship I have with John or Patty.

It does what they said it would, it makes me a good living.

I know they spent many years and tears perfecting the system.

 

[Scott Rogers]

O boy have you fallen for a load of crap. The CX 17 was on the market long before John decided to sell it and call the name to the Brute.

And his name is Clark Lancaster, not Clarke which is another equipment manufacturer all together.

The only difference between the machine John orders for his customers and the machine Clark normally sells is the balance of the counter balance. The counter balance is set for the type of drive the machine is going to run. Since Clark normally sends the machines bought direct from him with a brush driver they are balanced different then the machines sold with the Brush/Velcro driver.

It really pisses me off when people claim they designed a machine when they did nothing except sell it!!!!!!

And dont get me started on the Chemicals

Private labeling someone elses chemicals and changing the dilutions does not mean you developed the chemical.

 

[hogjowl]

Scott's telling you the truth Darlene.

Both machines are good choices. I have the Defender and love it. I am about to purchase a CX-20, which I believe is Clarks machine that is just like the Brute. I want a 20 inch machine with the spray system on it.

You can't go wrong with either John or Clark, in my opinion. I go with Clark because he's right up the road from me, and he's just a good friend now.

 

[DavidB]

I asked Clark at Orbitec and that is pretty much what he explained to me. But the real question was and still is the pad driver. I have never ran an OP machine so I was wondering what was the "practical" difference and I think Scott summed it up pretty well, thanx Scott

 

[Jack May]

Scott, I was well aware that John got his machines manufacturered by Clark. I still went with John and Patty.

John

 

[randy]

I don't recall John G. ever claiming he "invented" the Brute. He developed his original Op machines and made them in house for years. In recent years he hooked up with Clark Lancaster (also a very fine gentleman) and now he private labels several of Clark's units.

So what ? That is pretty common in most industries.

Lets be careful not to imply dishonesty on John's part with respect to his business endeavors. He is a honest Joe, I mean John.

 

[Rescue]

What about HOS OP?

 

[John G]

Let me set the record straight, CLARK invented the CX I then changed things on it that fit more our type of cleaning, i.e. counterbalance and brush head type, I prefer the brush head for several reasons. For one they run all pads not just bonnets or really heavy pads. We also added a valve for adjusting the spray.

As a distributor of Clark's he was NOT to undersell us. I would be dissappointed to hear that is going on.

The commercial breeze is our machine but Clark builds it for us, keep in mind we sell the CX, the EasyGlide, the Defender, The Challenger, The Commercial Breeze, the Brute and so forth, we were the originators of highspeed orbital machines, green op cleaning products and the Gladiator pads, but as you see, whenever someone comes up with something new or better, many hurry out to copy your work without having to spend the time or money on research and development.

 

[Scott Rogers]

John, who copied your stuff?

First Enviro ???

Orek??


Where did you hear Clark is under cutting your prices?? Wasnt in this thread. Maybe your talking about the one he gave away at MikeFest this year.

And after bad mouthing the Challenger machine all these years, why are you selling them now?

 

[Scott Rogers]

I don't recall John G. ever claiming he "invented" the Brute. He developed his original Op machines and made them in house for years. In recent years he hooked up with Clark Lancaster (also a very fine gentleman) and now he private labels several of Clark's units.

So what ? That is pretty common in most industries.

Lets be careful not to imply dishonesty on John's part with respect to his business endeavors. He is a honest Joe, I mean John.

Randy, John did claim to be the inventor of the Brute. When I bought mine he told me he designed and builds the machine. Adding a valve and changing the weight of a counter balance so it can run a heavier driver doesnt constitute designing the machine in my book.

Also, ask him how many cleaners he has told if the HWE berber carpets they will ruin them.

And the fact that he brought green OP chemicals , when in fact these green chemical had been used in bonnet cleaning years before John started introducing them as OP chems

I dont consider tactics like these completely honest do you?

 

[John G]

I have never claimed to have invented the Brute, that is ridiculous.
I have NEVER built nor claimed to have built a Brute, I built the conquerors, the ccs blues and then asked Clark to build our commercial breeze.

When we changed the specifications to fit our method, that is the ONLY thing we did to the Brute.

Oreck? We were doing this long before they were.


On the Chems is was supposed to say, ONE of the first, that is all.

YOu are posting a lot of BS Scott, and you know it, what is YOUR agenda on this?

The line about being able to get a better price from Clark has been edited, so now it doesn't show up in the thread.

 

[Dolly]

Now see what you got going there David? :shock:

 

[DavidB]

Same thing happened with the cimex vs OP thread :?

 

[Scott Rogers]

I have never claimed to have invented the Brute, that is ridiculous.
I have NEVER built nor claimed to have built a Brute, I built the conquerors, the ccs blues and then asked Clark to build our commercial breeze.
When I bought my Brute from you you did say it was your design and you where building them. If you didnt purge your board I bet I could find post backing this, But I guess thats a mute point now. I know others who have purchased your machines where given the impression that it was your design, weather you said it directly or implied it. I have seen it posted to man times to be a coincidence.

When we changed the specifications to fit our method, that is the ONLY thing we did to the Brute.

Oreck? We were doing this long before they were.


On the Chems is was supposed to say, ONE of the first, that is all.

YOu are posting a lot of BS Scott, and you know it, what is YOUR agenda on this?
the only agenda I have is to get the whole truth out there, not mis-truths and omissions that make salesmen look better. And I am not only talking about you! But the chem line above is exactlly the thing I am talking about. It could have been a typo but there is a constant bending of truths that goes on all the boards.

The line about being able to get a better price from Clark has been edited, so now it doesn't show up in the thread.

Show me what post in this thread has been edited. The only editing was done in my post and it was after you made your claim of undercutting. And for the record what I edited was a spelling error.

This post didnt start out to bash you John. I put out a valid post about the differences in pad drivers and machines from my experiences with both machines and all 3 pad drivers systems. The rest was rebuttals and corrections to other post. Such as John Middletons post about buying from you instead of Clark because of Clarks reputation. When in fact he bought one of Clarks machines through you. Then Dolly came on saying how it was your design. That is not true!!!

You will be hard pressed to find anywhere on these boards where I intentionally lied-mislead or omitted any part of the truth on any subject.

 

[Scott Rogers]

And for the record. I do not know Clark. I have never met him. I have purchased Dura pads from him 1 time. I have purchased 1 of his machines from a distributor other then John and 1 from John plus 1 CBM from somone else.

If you ask Clark about me, I doubt he has a clue who I am.

I will be and have been the first person on any board to sway people not to buy one of Clark's CBM's as there are better options in my opinion. I am always on the board when someone says to by Larry Cobbs CBM correcting people that it is not Larrys CBM but Clarks.

I am not trying to make John look bad. I am putting the truth out there. Thats all.

I dont care if it god Mikey himself. If I know he is lying I am going to call him on it. Sorry to drag you into this Mike!!

 

[John G]

You know, making the type bigger doesn't make a lie the truth Scott.

And we both know what the editing was all about.

 

[Scott Rogers]

Well show me the post that was edited then John. The post that was edited before your post about Clark undercutting. The only post that was edited was after.


You started to read the thread and started getting hot under the collar and thought you read something that wasnt there.

What set you off was I said there are many distributors of Clark's equipment and to shop around for the best price.

 

[diamond brian]

John's good people, Scott.

Private labeling is a common and acceptable practice occurring in virtually every industry. For John to change certain design components and refer to the machine as his design is not unethical or wrong in any way.

If consumers were forced to choose from completely original products, our economy and way of life would look much different than it does today.

Wanna be productive here, bash someone who deserves it--like DevilDog.

 

[John G]

Saying it over and over doesn't do anymore than typing larger either.

I know what I read, so do you.

 

[Scott Rogers]

John, all post that have been edited are mark and time stamped with the edit notice. you simply miss read a post.

To be honest I miss read your post as well. When I read it last night I thought you said

I am disappointed to hear that is going on.

but what you said

"I would be dissappointed to hear that is going on."

 

[John G]

No problem Scott, a good argument does the heart good anyways.. LOL

 

[bob vawter]

John...so is Julie still helping you errrrrrrrr...."mix" the chemicals?

 

[John G]

Don't know quite what you are trying to say Bob, but NO she does not.

Like normal you imply crap but have nothing to say.

 

[bob vawter]

Jus goin' by the post when you sED that she heped you mix the chemicals...you sED that on The Blue Board to Marty when he was bustin' on ya.......one time!

I THINK we may has SAVED that post...wanna see it....?

 

[Guest]

Bob, did chad really steal a plaque from you?

 

[John G]

...so is Julie still helping you errrrrrrrr...."mix" the chemicals?

That was your question ole man, had your question been HAS SHE, that would be a different question now wouldn't it?

Silly ole man.

 

[bob vawter]

OK....HAS SHE ever heped you dilute yor chemicals....


now be carefull G...GOD is watching you....!