The Great Debate: Urine Removal Processes

[Mike Pailliotet]

Yes he vacuums over the urine, then goes straight to Best Buy and tells them the wires are burning off, smells like cat piss and gets a replacement Shark!

You're mistaken Marty for Damon

 

[SamIam]

stop with the baby talk

Reeeellly

 

[SamIam]

I have to agree with @Cleanworks on his assessment. I'm blessed /cursed that 8 out of the ten customers have odor-related problems in their house, not necessarily pet malodor, but also human as well. I titled it #1, #2, and #3; as you may expect, we're talking urine, feces, and vomit. Odor modifiers and oxidizers might work on areas that are lightly contaminated ( carpeting, upholstery, and even innate surfaces can carry the odor well (anti-slip tiles& grout). In most cases, I advise owners to replace carpeting, but because pets cause accidents in most rooms, owners are reluctant to take expensive ways to resolve the issue. So far, I have used Cat Attack, Skunk-out, and Un-duz-it, but my favorite product is by far USR with Multiphase by Clean Master, which is a potent powder. I don't use it to flood the affected area; I keep the foam on the carpet's surface and let it oxidize for a while instead of allowing too much solution through the backing to the underlayment, where the problem lies. I used large water claws and different spot lifters to mitigate the urine contamination; there wasn't enough lift and rinse to remove all the urine. Surface treatment of large areas, rinsing, and quick drying work for me. I make smaller batches when I mix up to 6 ounces of USR with 16-24 fl. oz of scorching water, which gives me a gallon of thick foam, almost like a paste texture, that I disperse on affected areas. You can hear /see the effervescent effect immediately. I can make 5-gallon batches, but it's harder to control foam buildup. I'm making batches in the room using a solution line with an open end of QD. If needed, I use bonnets on Oreck to help the carpet dry while running a movers.
If the source of the odor is eliminated ( dog or cat died), owners usually opt for carpet removal. Until then, we provide partial relief for their long-lasting problem.

My understanding is from guys like Scott Warrington, and the different products developed,

Is unless the product comes in contact with source of the odor, your not gonna win.

I don't charge alot for pet treatment because I'm going to be adding it to a lot of jobs.

I'm certainly not charging per spot.

If I used unduzit a ready to use product, I would have to charge a lot more.


Like Marty bio spray or grease eater even code red, with a splash of cide


You can eliminate stains and odors effectively and keep your chemical cost down.

 

[icleancarpetz]

Yep-- If one uses water first, it will take less expensive chemicals to remove the remaining urine.

1,000% agree.

 

[hogjowl]

As lo

You run your vacuum over their urine?

Yes, as long as it’s dry.

 

[hogjowl]

In all seriousness, mind telling us the kind of rate you get for an average sized room with that process?

That’s probably about as good as it gets without replacing carpet.

.50 per s.f.

 

[hogjowl]

To tell the truth, urine odor isn’t as hard to remove as “big dog odor”, which is what most people describe it as. It’s when you have a dog, usually large, that never gets bathed living in the house on carpet that never gets cleaned. I find it in rentals mainly.
I clean the carpet, they turn off the ac and leave. New tenant or property manager goes in two weeks later and it smells like a zoo.

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

As lo

Yes, as long as it’s dry.

Gross

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

But completely explains your pissy attitude on life...

 

[Jim Pemberton]

To tell the truth, urine odor isn’t as hard to remove as “big dog odor”, which is what most people describe it as. It’s when you have a dog, usually large, that never gets bathed living in the house on carpet that never gets cleaned. I find it in rentals mainly.
I clean the carpet, they turn off the ac and leave. New tenant or property manager goes in two weeks later and it smells like a zoo.

Odor from decay in dog hair IS the bigger issue today.

For the curious, here are the factors that create this odor from dog hair and dander after you clean:

Sixteen compounds were found to be important odorants in dry dog hair coat vs.22 in wet dog hair coat. Water addition to dog hair and incubation causedsubstantial changes in the volatile compounds observed. Many compound groupsshowed increases upon water addition: strong sulfur, medicinal, or fecal smellingodors (dimethyl trisulfide, phenol, p-cresol), mushroom (1-octen-3-ol), fruity (2-nonanone), floral (â-damascenone), and earthy smelling (2,3-diethyl-5-methylpyrazine) odors, and branched or complex aldehydes (2, and 3-methylbutanal, isobutanal, 2E-octenal, acetaldehyde, benzaldehyde,phenylacetaldehyde, 2E-nonanal). Of those compounds measured,benzaldehyde, phenylaldehyde, acetaldehyde, phenol, and 2-methyl butanalshowed the largest increases with 32, 6, 5, 5 and 4 times the dry hair value,respectively. Concurrent with these increases, analytical results show decreasesin straight chain aldehydes upon water addition (hexanal, heptanal, and decanal).However, the changes in levels of octanal and nonanal were dog dependent.Isovaleric acid, hexanal, and heptanal showed the largest decreases upon wateraddition to the hair.

Compounds Responsible for the Odor of Dog Hair CoatWSAVA 2002 Congress*Linda Young, Phillipe Pollien, Deborah Roberts, Jill Cline*Nestle Purina PTCSt. Joseph, Missouri, USlinda.young@rdmo.nestle.com

Based upon my experience in dealing with this issue for .....well, since Jimmy Carter was in office.....I find that EPA registered sanitizers work best on the problem. For decades, phenols worked best, but are not as easily available, and those that are smell awful. Now I find "botanical" products, that contain thyme or thymol work best.

Removing as much dog hair as possible first is critical to success.

Oh...and forgive me HWE guys....but the less you wet it, the less it stinks.

Everyone else, carry on with your urine odor treatment experiences.

 

[Willy P]

The curse of our industry is customers expect this and most cleaners think a bunch wand passes does the same .



View: https://youtube.com/shorts/MhfV1Vv4azY?si=BGdKMk5Fcp7F8CKE

That's as pissy as Marty.

 

[icleancarpetz]

To tell the truth, urine odor isn’t as hard to remove as “big dog odor”, which is what most people describe it as. It’s when you have a dog, usually large, that never gets bathed living in the house on carpet that never gets cleaned. I find it in rentals mainly.
I clean the carpet, they turn off the ac and leave. New tenant or property manager goes in two weeks later and it smells like a zoo.

I like zoo better.
some of my apt complex jobs have had rosey fragrances of a pig pen. That’s one odor that will run you out and not want to eat anything pork.
but also had a complex that would rip out the carpet and install new after a few tenants.

 

[hogjowl]

Jim
We’re carpet cleaners
Stop with all the scientific lingo and tell us in English how to handle the problem

 

[Cleanworks]

He said use Benefect

Jim
We’re carpet cleaners
Stop with all the scientific lingo and tell us in English how to handle the problem

.

 

[Meter Maid]

Odor from decay in dog hair IS the bigger issue today.

For the curious, here are the factors that create this odor from dog hair and dander after you clean:

Sixteen compounds were found to be important odorants in dry dog hair coat vs.22 in wet dog hair coat. Water addition to dog hair and incubation causedsubstantial changes in the volatile compounds observed. Many compound groupsshowed increases upon water addition: strong sulfur, medicinal, or fecal smellingodors (dimethyl trisulfide, phenol, p-cresol), mushroom (1-octen-3-ol), fruity (2-nonanone), floral (â-damascenone), and earthy smelling (2,3-diethyl-5-methylpyrazine) odors, and branched or complex aldehydes (2, and 3-methylbutanal, isobutanal, 2E-octenal, acetaldehyde, benzaldehyde,phenylacetaldehyde, 2E-nonanal). Of those compounds measured,benzaldehyde, phenylaldehyde, acetaldehyde, phenol, and 2-methyl butanalshowed the largest increases with 32, 6, 5, 5 and 4 times the dry hair value,respectively. Concurrent with these increases, analytical results show decreasesin straight chain aldehydes upon water addition (hexanal, heptanal, and decanal).However, the changes in levels of octanal and nonanal were dog dependent.Isovaleric acid, hexanal, and heptanal showed the largest decreases upon wateraddition to the hair.

Compounds Responsible for the Odor of Dog Hair CoatWSAVA 2002 Congress*Linda Young, Phillipe Pollien, Deborah Roberts, Jill Cline*Nestle Purina PTCSt. Joseph, Missouri, USlinda.young@rdmo.nestle.com

Based upon my experience in dealing with this issue for .....well, since Jimmy Carter was in office.....I find that EPA registered sanitizers work best on the problem. For decades, phenols worked best, but are not as easily available, and those that are smell awful. Now I find "botanical" products, that contain thyme or thymol work best.

Removing as much dog hair as possible first is critical to success.

Oh...and forgive me HWE guys....but the less you wet it, the less it stinks.

Everyone else, carry on with your urine odor treatment experiences.

You’re a great resource. I appreciate you.

 

[Meter Maid]

Oh...and forgive me HWE guys....but the less you wet it, the less it stinks

This is true in my experience, for sure.

 

[hogjowl]

Yeah, but the less you wet it, the less soil you’re removing. I suppose the happy place is somewhere between padding and RE.

 

[Living The Dream]

Today I had a repeat client that has an old dog. I usually clean for them at least 2 times a year. They have poly carpet, beige in color. I always give them one of my pet spotters, but they ran out in-between cleanings and opted for some hardware store pet spotter and you can definitely tell where it was used because it was resoiling like crazy.

It was my only job on the books today so I thought I would do some testing.

The first thing I did was mix up some TOPS PadCap Pro at 2 ounces to 2.5 gal. and applied to all areas, CRB, then go over with a bonnet, and the results were noticeable, but minimal.

I then mixed up some Silver Solution at 5 ounces per gallon and added 1 packet of Obliterate (Chlorine Dioxide) I was hopeful for this because I know Silver Solution has a lower PH and I think acidic is ideal for urine. I then ran a new bonnet and went over everything. I believe the Chlorine Dioxide knocked down the yellowing, but it was still noticeable.

I then grabbed my T-Rex from the van with a brush head used 300 psi and high heat and went over all the areas. This made a considerable difference.

Lastly, I grabbed a couple more bonnets and went over everything using a high volume peroxide based product and I was very pleased with the results, and the carpet was almost dry.

I left one small area untouched and tried to go over it with a pad and the products that I used in the first steps and I really didn't have much luck getting it to look like the other areas. I switched between micro, micro with stripes, cotton, and cotton with green stripes.

I know a lot of people on here will say they won't do jobs like this, but this is a repeat client. They are aware of the situation. They love their pet and are willing to deal with this until the pet passes, and will replace at that time. I'm offering them a solution, they are educated on the situation, and find value in it.

This was around 800 sq ft and I charge .75 a sq ft.

I'm not ruling out the low moisture yet though. I do however think that HWE combined with post bonneting with a peroxide based product is definitely a good combo.

 

[hogjowl]

I really like pet urine jobs. They’re in just about every house and I’ve learned how to deal with them.

 

[SamIam]

As lo

Yes, as long as it’s dry.

Sometimes it's shticky real good.

And I'll use theirs

 

[SamIam]

Gently soak with enzyme enough to get to the pad
set Up while enzymes are digesting urine
extract with water claw while pouring water in the area.
clean carpets while spraying enzyme on the spot.
pouring a good rinsing agent of about 4 ph helps The extract.

Honestly, any carpet with mega urine is almost hopeless.
Small spots here there can be controlled.
If the pet has a habit of urinating on carpets and owner is not willing to get rid of the animal, the problem will always exist.

Ive been to homes that smell like pet urine while I’m standing outside ringing the doorbell and the door closed. Homeowners do not smell the stench. When i walk in, i wonder how in the world people live like this and not know their home stink.

I like pets, I had a doggie For 9 years. Their is no way I would let a pet toilet on the floors or sofa. He either will be trained to potty outside or he just has to go. Forget that noise. No way.

I agree a trained dog all the way.

Our Dexter had congestive heart failure and wasn't pungent, but no way my wife would get rid of the dog.

They're reel family the medication messed him up in the end.

 

[Meter Maid]

Today I had a repeat client that has an old dog. I usually clean for them at least 2 times a year. They have poly carpet, beige in color. I always give them one of my pet spotters, but they ran out in-between cleanings and opted for some hardware store pet spotter and you can definitely tell where it was used because it was resoiling like crazy.

It was my only job on the books today so I thought I would do some testing.

The first thing I did was mix up some TOPS PadCap Pro at 2 ounces to 2.5 gal. and applied to all areas, CRB, then go over with a bonnet, and the results were noticeable, but minimal.

I then mixed up some Silver Solution at 5 ounces per gallon and added 1 packet of Obliterate (Chlorine Dioxide) I was hopeful for this because I know Silver Solution has a lower PH and I think acidic is ideal for urine. I then ran a new bonnet and went over everything. I believe the Chlorine Dioxide knocked down the yellowing, but it was still noticeable.

I then grabbed my T-Rex from the van with a brush head used 300 psi and high heat and went over all the areas. This made a considerable difference.

Lastly, I grabbed a couple more bonnets and went over everything using a high volume peroxide based product and I was very pleased with the results, and the carpet was almost dry.

I left one small area untouched and tried to go over it with a pad and the products that I used in the first steps and I really didn't have much luck getting it to look like the other areas. I switched between micro, micro with stripes, cotton, and cotton with green stripes.

I know a lot of people on here will say they won't do jobs like this, but this is a repeat client. They are aware of the situation. They love their pet and are willing to deal with this until the pet passes, and will replace at that time. I'm offering them a solution, they are educated on the situation, and find value in it.

This was around 800 sq ft and I charge .75 a sq ft.

I'm not ruling out the low moisture yet though. I do however think that HWE combined with post bonneting with a peroxide based product is definitely a good combo.

Be careful mixing sodium chlorite (CLO2 products) with peroxide. The duo can cause nasty bleaching.

Also, sodium chlorite doesn’t actually convert to a mild CLO2 until it’s acidic and it doesn’t take much.

For urine deposits, I mix sodium chlorite with PCP and add a pinch of Prochem acid rinse to barely get the solution to the acidic side.

That solution annihilates urine.

The sellers of the so-called “stabilized CLO2” products don’t mention this because they don’t want people going too crazy on the acid side. The problem is those products are absolutely not CLO2 unless acidic.

You could also mix your CLO2 product with Silver Solution since SS is just acidic enough to convert the sodium chlorite to CLO2.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Be careful mixing sodium chlorite (CLO2 products) with peroxide. The duo can cause nasty bleaching.

Also, sodium chlorite doesn’t actually convert to a mild CLO2 until it’s acidic and it doesn’t take much.

For urine deposits, I mix sodium chlorite with PCP and add a pinch of Prochem acid rinse to barely get the solution to the acidic side.

That solution annihilates urine.

The sellers of the so-called “stabilized CLO2” products don’t mention this because they don’t want people going too crazy on the acid side. The problem is those products are absolutely not CLO2 unless acidic.

You could also mix your CLO2 product with Silver Solution since SS is just acidic enough to convert the sodium chlorite to CLO2.

Did you actually try to mix sodium chlorite with peroxide? LOL . Of course it's gonna cause nasty bleaching. Peroxide adds the missing chemical element that makes it a liquid chorine bleach which is hydrogen.

And adding a pinch of acid rinse to it, did you do a ph test to see if it really drops down to and acid? Because it seems that adding just a little acid would just neutralize it and weaken it. I think the purpose is to kill odor causing bacteria only, not help emulsify any of the gunk that makes piss sticky

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Jim
We’re carpet cleaners
Stop with all the scientific lingo and tell us in English how to handle the problem

Thanks Marty

I was once told when someone asks me what time it is, I tell them how to build a watch

I have purposely withheld my experiences with urine odor removal so as not to in any way muddy the water in this discussion.

But, in light of the fact that "doggie odor" is a separate, if related, issue:

Use a wool brush on a CRB if available, and remove as much hair as possible.
Use a groomer to manually remove as much hair as possible if you don't have a CRB.
Vacuum
Apply a botanical sanitizer
Clean with as little wetting as possible. VLM is helpful, but make doubly sure you got as much hair out as possible first. HWE will remove more remaining hair, but get it dry quick or you'll make it worse.
Dry quickly
Apply your favorite 'Cide if needed to control residual odor while it dries. You can apply more of your botanical sanitizer, but these will attract soil.

 

[Meter Maid]

Did you actually try to mix sodium chlorite with peroxide? LOL . Of course it's gonna cause nasty bleaching. Peroxide adds the missing chemical element that makes it a liquid chorine bleach which is hydrogen.

And adding a pinch of acid rinse to it, did you do a ph test to see if it really drops down to and acid? Because it seems that adding just a little acid would just neutralize it and weaken it. I think the purpose is to kill odor causing bacteria only, not help emulsify any of the gunk that makes piss sticky

It’s easy to see when sodium chlorite converts to CLO2. The solution gets a green tint and starts smelling like weak chlorine.

I’ve done lots of testing. When I put diluted sodium chlorite on a piss spot, it takes time for it to work.

Acidified sodium chlorite (CLO2) almost works instantly.

I’ve also tested it with piss in a cup.

Night and day difference.

PCP is 7 ph, so it doesn’t take much acid to push it over. I usually don’t mix PCP in the solution though.

And no, I didn’t mix sodium chlorite and peroxide, I know from research that it’s no bueno.

If you’re not acidifying sodium chlorite, then you’re missing all the benefits. Sodium chlorite is merely a weak oxidizer and is not CLO2.

 

[Meter Maid]

Did you actually try to mix sodium chlorite with peroxide? LOL . Of course it's gonna cause nasty bleaching. Peroxide adds the missing chemical element that makes it a liquid chorine bleach which is hydrogen.

And adding a pinch of acid rinse to it, did you do a ph test to see if it really drops down to and acid? Because it seems that adding just a little acid would just neutralize it and weaken it. I think the purpose is to kill odor causing bacteria only, not help emulsify any of the gunk that makes piss sticky

FYI

 

[The carpet cleaning professor]

What is odor removal?

It’s to make it not smell!
Methodology directly relates to customer satisfaction
Doubling down buckets “enzymes”of water and trying to suck it out while handing them a massive bill leads to a lot customer duress air movers dehumidifiers, warped, sub floors. Sounds like a blast.

Or make it not stink, and make them happy and do the right thing

Ask yourself, can I truly get it out? Am I really doing the best thing for them and me?
Am I wasting time chasing up?

What is actual proper remediation? Is it truly cleaning both sides of the carpet replacing the pad after painting the subfloor
Maybe even replacing the carpet

What about the other surfaces in the home? Can’t they harbor orders as well

People often overlook what our clients are actually asking for they don’t want to stink put your ego aside

 

[Jimmy L]

So in my quest to find out the active ingredient in a " Cide" I sat in my recliner and went into a deep trance. I then reached out to the spirit of Shawn Forsyth and asked him about "Cides". He said that it's all just bullshit hiding the simple fact that all it is ...........is.........ALCOHOL.
And you can even fog hvac ducts with it because it's not toxic.
So all you stupit MOFOS that's it!

And he mentioned a certain Fred Boil, who he will haunt forever for treating him so badly when he was alive.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

So in my quest to find out the active ingredient in a " Cide" I sat in my recliner and went into a deep trance. I then reached out to the spirit of Shawn Forsyth and asked him about "Cides". He said that it's all just bullshit hiding the simple fact that all it is ...........is.........ALCOHOL.
And you can even fog hvac ducts with it because it's not toxic.
So all you stupit MOFOS that's it!

And he mentioned a certain Fred Boil, who he will haunt forever for treating him so badly when he was alive.

I was attempting to be kind and generous of spirit in this place that lacks both Jimmy

For the purpose of clarity:

Hydrocide
Odorcide
Saigercide
Ladwigcide

 

[hogjowl]

Ladwigcide comes in a burning paper bag