Vlm caused white streaks

[Bryce C]

I cleaned a factory office using vlm method recently and tried out Commercial Magic, which is Vacaway's high pH encap. I have never used a high pH vlm cleaning agent before. It caused this whitish streaking or discoloration effect that I have never seen. Aggressive raking improved it but didn't completely correct it. I fully hydrated the carpet fibers and scrubbed with a tan fiber pad, then went over the area again with a premoistened microfiber bonnet, all using a 175...

We've cleaned for this company 3 times now and they really like us, I never heard anything from the owner after this recent job, and I've always told him to contact me if they have any issues at all. So I am guessing the white discoloration went away after we left. Could this just be some type of white foam effect that takes a while to dissipate? Or...?

 

[SamIam]

Is it pile or chemical related old rx 20 and rotaries lifting and pushing two direction would create different shading on the pile.

Did they try and vacuum an area to see if it helps?

Lastly carpet fresh?

 

[SamIam]

Yeah did you use a swing machine or a push machine?

Never mind 175 that's what it looks like side to side pile if you want it even you gotta over lap more and direct the pile in the same direction

 

[hogjowl]

I have no idea what caused that. Since they’re not complaining leave it be. Just don’t use that product next time and see if it occurs again.

 

[Mikey P]

Looks like uneven application to me...

 

[SteamwayPro]

I cleaned a factory office using vlm method recently and tried out Commercial Magic, which is Vacaway's high pH encap. I have never used a high pH vlm cleaning agent before. It caused this whitish streaking or discoloration effect that I have never seen. Aggressive raking improved it but didn't completely correct it. I fully hydrated the carpet fibers and scrubbed with a tan fiber pad, then went over the area again with a premoistened microfiber bonnet, all using a 175...

We've cleaned for this company 3 times now and they really like us, I never heard anything from the owner after this recent job, and I've always told him to contact me if they have any issues at all. So I am guessing the white discoloration went away after we left. Could this just be some type of white foam effect that takes a while to dissipate? Or...?

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Not sure what caused that but VacAway Commercial Magic is not the cause

Commercial Magic is a fantastic crystallizing encap

I mostly use it on trashed carpet usually found in rental apartments

But I did use it on that CGD and no streaks or discoloration

 

[Bryce C]

Thanks guys. I'll go for better overlaps and more even application in the future and see if that helps. I'll compare a different encap cleaner too. I think the different pile directions being forced by the 175 may have something to do with it, but it was very difficult to improve with even aggressive grooming so I don't know.

Did they try and vacuum an area to see if it helps?

Lastly carpet fresh?

We didn't try vacuuming the area afterwards but I figured aggressive grooming would do at least as much as vacuuming. What is carpet fresh?

 

[Mikey P]

Thanks guys. I'll go for better overlaps and more even application in the future and see if that helps. I'll compare a different encap cleaner too. I think the different pile directions being forced by the 175 may have something to do with it, but it was very difficult to improve with even aggressive grooming so I don't know.



We didn't try vacuuming the area afterwards but I figured aggressive grooming would do at least as much as vacuuming. What is carpet fresh?

Does your 175 have a onboard tank or are you using a sprayer?

 

[Bryce C]

We are using a multisprayer.

 

[Mikey P]

We are using a multisprayer.

I think that's your problem

And capping with a microfiber or cotton blend needs to be evenly wetted out during the whole process


Shower feeding through a tank is never panned out well with OP machines due to fling and corrosion of the bearings but it may work out with a 175.

The process is going to be much slower and when you run into tough spots you're naturally going to heal the machine which will probably create streaky patterns as well if you're not careful.

I'd be on the lookout for a used op with an onboard to Jet spray system

 

[SteamwayPro]

We are using a multisprayer.

What size jet was on the multi sprayer

I don't think you wetted the carpet enough

You would need a 8004 or larger

By the time your bonnet hit it, it was almost or already dry



If you can't get a OP with sprayer buy a WORX Sprayer. It's the best sprayer for VLM. I use it on all my VLM residential work

It puts out enough solution to properly wet the carpet. You can use the wand that comes with it or replace it. I replaced the WORX wand with Multi Sprayer wands. You just need to get the short WORX extensions

You can buy the WORX Sprayer from WORX off ebay refurbished like new. Not sure what the price is now but probably around $75

 

[Mikey P]

that 2 gal jug should be good for 300 to 500 ft at best...

I'll assume wifey is doing the spraying and you are running the machine. Is her mindset to use as little as possible based on the process being VERY low moisture?

 

[Mikey P]

with the more effective OP, you can stretch get closer to 800 to 1000 ft of dirty carpet done

 

[encapman]

"went over the area again with a premoistened microfiber bonnet, all using a 175"

There's the problem. Not enough moisture (as others have already commented on).

Running a rotary machine with a bonnet that's not wet enough can ... create distinct swirl patterns, overheat the fiber, melt olefin, distort the fiber, untwist cut pile, etc.

It's the reason why the mills have taken such a strong position against the bonnet method. It's not bonnets that are to blame, it's the lack of sufficient lubrication that creates problems.

 

[hogjowl]

If I were you, I’d take the above as gospel.

 

[Bryce C]

Oh snap great tips guys. I told my wife to saturate it as normal. I checked in a few areas and it seemed ok. She may of gotten too far ahead in some areas though and led to us being too dry when I got to areas to scrub and pad them. Our idea of vlm isn't low application of detergent though. It's just that we aren't rinsing with 400 to 500 psi of water through a wand...

 

[Bryce C]

What size jet was on the multi sprayer

I don't think you wetted the carpet enough

You would need a 8004 or larger

By the time your bonnet hit it, it was almost or already dry



If you can't get a OP with sprayer buy a WORX Sprayer. It's the best sprayer for VLM. I use it on all my VLM residential work

It puts out enough solution to properly wet the carpet. You can use the wand that comes with it or replace it. I replaced the WORX wand with Multi Sprayer wands. You just need to get the short WORX extensions

You can buy the WORX Sprayer from WORX off ebay refurbished like new. Not sure what the price is now but probably around $75




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I just checked and it is an 8004 jet on my multisprayer. We went through a lot of juice, I know that. This diagnosis makes sense though, so not enough or leap frogging too far ahead..

I'll be certain to err on the side of over moistening the carpet fibers and pads in the future though that's for sure. And I will certainly look into the WORX sprayer too. Thank you!

 

[Bryce C]

I assumed it was and don't remember learning anything contrary early on, but now I am curious... when applying detergent is the proper saturation of carpet fibers with hot water extraction the same as what the proper saturation of fibers for vlm cleaning method is? It seems it would be more critical for vlm but the ideal amount would be the same for each method. Maybe just increased further depening on soil level.

 

[encapman]

With bonnet cleaning (and in fact all VLM methods) you will use far less solution than with HWE. However, the carpet needs to be wet at the point of contact with the bonnet. Spraying out a large-ish section of carpet ahead of the machine will not suffice (solution will penetrate down the fiber and it will also evaporate). Results will be inconsistent, blotchy, streaky, and/or pile distortion can occur.

To do proper bonnet cleaning, you need to spray the solution directly in front of the machine as you scrub. That''s why orbital machines with onboard spray systems have become so popular.

Here are some recommendations:

1. Pre-soak your bonnet and and then wring it out before using it.
2. If you don't have an onboard spray system / try to approximate similar results by spraying the solution to a small section and then clean it as quickly as possible following the spray application, before the solution can dissipate.
3. Another factor is to keep the machine moving / avoid standing still or going too slow the machine.
4. And finally; make overlapping passes – looking to achieve a smooth even looking appearance

 

[Bryce C]

With bonnet cleaning (and in fact all VLM methods) you will use far less solution than with HWE. However, the carpet needs to be wet at the point of contact with the bonnet. Spraying out a large-ish section of carpet ahead of the machine will not suffice (solution will penetrate down the fiber and it will also evaporate). Results will be inconsistent, blotchy, streaky, and/or pile distortion can occur.

To do proper bonnet cleaning, you need to spray the solution directly in front of the machine as you scrub. That''s why orbital machines with onboard spray systems have become so popular.

Here are some recommendations:

1. Pre-soak your bonnet and and then wring it out before using it.
2. If you don't have an onboard spray system / try to approximate similar results by spraying the solution to a small section and then clean it as quickly as possible following the spray application, before the solution can dissipate.
3. Another factor is to keep the machine moving / avoid standing still or going too slow the machine.
4. And finally; make overlapping passes – looking to achieve a smooth even looking appearance

I've only been partially moistening my bonnets, and we are getting too far ahead of the machine spraying. Great advice thank you.

About moistening bonnets, does having a bonnet more completely pre saturated (soaked then wrung out) prevent it from absorbing more soil? That was my concern in only partially saturating them...

I've generally been doing about a 50% overlap on passes using the 175.

 

[encapman]

No need to worry about soil absorption using a wetter bonnet. It will still clean like like crazy.

You don't need a sopping wet bonnet. Just dunk it and then wring it out tightly.

 

[encapman]

Inspired by this discussion.

 

[Nate The Great]

The one thing that needs to be touched on is "heeling of the rotary 175 machines." That plus dry bonnets/not enough "lube" has been a major issue..

 

[Bryce C]

Inspired by this discussion.

Thank you so much. This is all super helpful information my friend. Very thoughtful of you to make a video! Hopefully I just created uneven clean steaks this time as I learned my lesson. I'll be very careful as we continue using our 175 for encap style cleaning. When we are able to we will get an op machine with an onboard spray system.

 

[Bryce C]

The one thing that needs to be touched on is "heeling of the rotary 175 machines." That plus dry bonnets/not enough "lube" has been a major issue..

I just watched a video and learned what heeling is. I'll be a lot more careful with the 175 as we continue to use it.

 

[encapman]

The one thing that needs to be touched on is "heeling of the rotary 175 machines." That plus dry bonnets/not enough "lube" has been a major issue..

Good reminder about not heeling the rotary.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

Really, if you’re gonna use a 175, do yourself
a favor and and put a tank on it. That way you can keep a consistent wet bonnet. No stopping to spray. A tank is inexpensive and not reasonable not to have one for that application. Put Encap Punch in it, and Bingo!

 

[Bryce C]

Really, if you’re gonna use a 175, do yourself
a favor and and put a tank on it. That way you can keep a consistent wet bonnet. No stopping to spray. A tank is inexpensive and not reasonable not to have one for that application. Put Encap Punch in it, and Bingo!

Are those tanks fairly universal for a 175? Will a shower feed be sufficient?

 

[Kenny Hayes]

Yes. Some machines don’t have predrilled hole for the solution line, but it’s easy to drill one if not.

 

[Cleanworks]

Really, if you’re gonna use a 175, do yourself
a favor and and put a tank on it. That way you can keep a consistent wet bonnet. No stopping to spray. A tank is inexpensive and not reasonable not to have one for that application. Put Encap Punch in it, and Bingo!

Not a fan of shower feed for bonnet cleaning. I fail to understand how that gets a pad evenly wet. A shower feed brush has holes drilled evenly all around and the solution comes distributed all over the spinning brush. How long does it take for solution to penetrate a pad?